Virtual Pool Mobile for Android smartphones

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Virtual Pool Mobile for Android smartphones

Postby Apollon » Wed Sep 09, 2009 1:55 am

I've had it with winblows mobile dumbphones - even the best of 'em freeze, hang, unbearably slow and often produce application errors. So, I'm considering Android smartphone for around xmas update and to make this decision would really help to know if Celeris has any plans to support the fastest growing mobile OS in the world - Android. Current "cupcake" Android 1.5 is pretty good and first Android v2.0 phone Sony Ericsson Experia X3 is coming out in December. Thanks.
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Re: Virtual Pool Mobile for Android smartphones

Postby polomint77 » Wed Sep 09, 2009 2:47 am

Hey Apo...

I know it's still early for most Android stuff, but are there any emulators that demo Android in use.. I was thinking of buying another PDA, and have thought about Android too..

I'll have a check with my best buddy Google and see what I can come up with too..
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Re: Virtual Pool Mobile for Android smartphones

Postby vpeer » Wed Sep 09, 2009 1:11 pm

VPM for Android is not in the making at the moment. Google made a poor decision in going with Java and Web apps as that is not very good for games. I suggest getting and iPhone if you really want to play VPM.
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Re: Virtual Pool Mobile for Android smartphones

Postby Apollon » Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:27 pm

vpeer wrote:VPM for Android is not in the making at the moment. Google made a poor decision in going with Java and Web apps as that is not very good for games. I suggest getting and iPhone if you really want to play VPM.

Thanks for the reply...I might have to hold out for Windows Mobile 7 then, as Microsoft says it'll have capacitive touchscreen support and speed comparable to iPhone's Mac OS.
As far as getting the iPhone - thanks, but no thanks. Although it's a known fact Apple's UI is an eye candy and better than the rest, uncle Steve really screwed up when it comes to iPhone's hardware, which is 2 generations behind competitors, Apple's proprietary technologies and restrictions when it comes to software support. Here is a short list why Apple's iPhone 3GS is a bad idea for advanced user:

1. Pathetic 3.2mp camera with very poor, low res. camcoder. Competitors have phones with 8mp and 12mp on the market, which are capable of doing 720x480 @30fps video recording.
2. No removable battery (seriously Mr. Jobs - 5 hours until full drain for road trip - that's how you're gonna play it? really?!)
3. No SD memory card slot (hello?! 21st century's calling! there are less than 10% of smartphones on the market without expension slot for external memory)
4. Bluetooth *STILL* crippled - no wireless syncing and no file transfers
5. 2G/3G connection tethering blocked in the firmware - no way to use iPhone's internet for your notebook when on the road, etc (doh!)
6. People with Sling Box like myself - Apple rejected 3G capable Sling Player version for iPhone from the app store - Sling Player for iPhone works only on 2G (EDGE) connection - welcome to the slide show!
7. Blocked direct access to hard drive - needs to be hacked and jailbroken, which voids the warranty
8. NO background applications - only 1 UI window process at a time (seriously uncle Steve?! we're back to DOS era? I guess rules were made to be broken and multitasking operating systems were made for apple to reject the concept)
9. No mpeg4/DIVX/XVID etc' codec support - Apple's proprietary crap like H264 only. Most glorified iPod (aka most popular mobile video and music player on the planet) doesn't support most popular video formats - good move uncle Steve!
10. No Flash browser - if I were to make a rough estimate i'd say about 40-50% web sites on the planet are running flash content, and Flash plugin is mandatory to display the site properly...this one doesn't even require a comment

If you add to this the fact that only very recently Apple added to their latest 3GS model Bluetooth A2DP, video recording and MMS which existed in most other smartphones for over 5 years and a *real* GPS 3-D software - I think one can understand why I said "Thanks, but no thanks".......
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Re: Virtual Pool Mobile for Android smartphones

Postby vpeer » Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:54 am

I agree that Apple does not do open platforms and I wish they did.

They were the first company to make a data plan really work and the first company to do a complete customer solution for easy purchase of applications. The iPhone is not perfect and in the state you can only get AT&T until 2010 and they suck.

The hardware is not as bad as you say. They have a fast ARM coupled with fast PowerVR 3D hardware. For games it is great. A few comments on other points:

Camera - not sure exactly where the cutoff is but with phone optics my guess is once you get past about 5 or 6MP does not matter, can't tell the difference. On point and shoot cameras the cutoff is in the 8-10MP range depending on the optics.

I can tether my iPhone to my laptop and connect to the internet.

Most phone put some restrictions on movie players one way or another. Apples are more than most. On top of that phone companies her sometimes put restrictions.

So, you hack the phone, who cares about the warranty.

The iPhone has a multi-tasking OS, it is basically Linux. Apple made the bad decision not to multi-task applications to simplify resource management. I expect that will change.

Codec support is always an issue with phones. H.264 is the best codec except perhaps for some of the Hantro codecs. Many phones don't allow installable codecs and I think they should. Apple is always into their own stuff is the best and that goes along with not being open.

I am not a big fan of Flash but it is a necessary component for web browsing.


Nokia makes great phones but has no idea about how to do software or an app store. I met with Nokia's application development director about 3 years ago and it was pretty sad they way they were thinking.
Microsoft has not idea how to make consumer products, except for the XBox, everything else they have done is not very good.

But I'm sure everyone will copy apple and maybe one of those companies will do it right so there may be more good choices.

Virtual Pool makes more money on the iPhone than all other platforms combined including the PC. So it is hard for me to knock what Apple is doing, just hoping for some improvements down the line.
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Re: Virtual Pool Mobile for Android smartphones

Postby polomint77 » Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:55 am

I have to be the one to say it.... WHEN ARE WE GETTING VP4????????
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Re: Virtual Pool Mobile for Android smartphones

Postby Apollon » Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:59 pm

polomint77 wrote:I have to be the one to say it.... WHEN ARE WE GETTING VP4????????

one off topic subject at a time please :ontopic:

as a former iphone v1 owner I was just expressing my frustration with iphone v2 and v3 - 2 years of broken expectations, in which Steve Jobs has managed to alienate a lot of people with his business oriented strategies, as opposed to customer oriented products few years back.
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Re: Virtual Pool Mobile for Android smartphones

Postby Apollon » Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:25 pm

vpeer wrote:
Camera - not sure exactly where the cutoff is but with phone optics my guess is once you get past about 5 or 6MP does not matter, can't tell the difference. On point and shoot cameras the cutoff is in the 8-10MP range depending on the optics.

I can tether my iPhone to my laptop and connect to the internet.

The iPhone has a multi-tasking OS, it is basically Linux. Apple made the bad decision not to multi-task applications to simplify resource management. I expect that will change.



I want to address 3 comments above:

You're right about megapixels in camera - after 5-6mp it indeed does not matter, unless the camera has optical zoom. However, you're overlooking the fact that what these smartphones are trying to do is implement "all in one" concept and phone camera is not really a camera - it is like I mentioned above camera/camcoder. And with 3.2mp video quality is simply a joke - no other word for it. No person in his right mind who owns an iphone would sell his camcoder, which he uses to shoot video on vacations, etc'. That is not the case with competitor's devices - phones like Samsung Omnia 2 GT-i8000 are fully capable of true DVD quality video recording. Back to iphone though - 3.2mp isn't even good enough for pictures.

You must have an older version of iPhone than 3GS or 3GS with the original, old firmware because according to this: http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2009/07/14/iphone-os-3-1-beta-2-released/
tethering is no longer possible in iphone OS v3.1

From the user perspective it makes absolutely no difference whatsoever if the OS has multitasking capabilities, in terms of OS design OR it's just blocked in the firmware, by creating modified version of the OS for iphone - multitasking doesnt exist, period. Otherwise one could claim: "hey, iphone has fully functional Blueooth!" based on the fact, the Cambridge Silicon Radio Bluetooth chip in iphone is one of the most advanced Bluetooth v2 chips on the market, fully capable of wiriless syncing, OBEX object push and file transfers, etc' which is blocked in the radio's firmware in iphone.
My point is - whether something is completely not implemented in hardware or software or the functionality just blocked in the phone's firmware - as far as the end user is concerned the functionality doesn't exist.
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Re: Virtual Pool Mobile for Android smartphones

Postby AlinVille » Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:35 pm

polomint77 wrote:I have to be the one to say it.... WHEN ARE WE GETTING VP4????????

+1.

No one interested in pool cares about them mobile games. No matter how good they are, best they'll be is total crap. Quote, period.

Off topic I know. But since we never ever get an answer or an idea regarding that question, I don't feel like topics really matter anymore; if I were to create a new thread asking the same thing it won't have any replies as usual. Notice how this went quiet when THE question arrived... strange isn't it?
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Re: Virtual Pool Mobile for Android smartphones

Postby vpeer » Sun Oct 11, 2009 11:04 am

Huh? You obviously have not played VPM on the iPhone. Not as good as the PC but a long way from total crap. Actually plays nicely.
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Re: Virtual Pool Mobile for Android smartphones

Postby AlinVille » Wed Oct 14, 2009 3:51 pm

Well okay it might play nicely for a game but they can't be called pool simulations, you play on a... phone!

Yeah that was overreacting and off-topic but there seemed to be no other way anyone could ever get a reply from you concerning the next VP. And 95% of the people here only care about the PC version... :3some:
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Re: Virtual Pool Mobile for Android smartphones

Postby Apollon » Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:23 pm

AlinVille wrote:Well okay it might play nicely for a game but they can't be called pool simulations, you play on a... phone!

Yeah that was overreacting and off-topic but there seemed to be no other way anyone could ever get a reply from you concerning the next VP. And 95% of the people here only care about the PC version... :3some:



I don't know how you came up with that percentage, but I think it's way off and yes - way off topic too. I'm personally very interested in mobile versions, I have several people at work who run it on their iphones as well as winmo devices and I think
since smartphones these days become more and more like personal PCs capabilities wise, only with smaller screens - I think it's getting more popular by the day.
And you also have to remember that with all do respect to what we, existing PC players want Celeris has to look at the business perspective and what generates more revenue - on order to stay in business. And mobile marketplaces with their mobile apps for crapberry...err blackberry, iphone, winmo, android and symbian devices produce a lot of money

@vpeer: the info has been leaked world's best smartphone HTC HD2 (aka Leo) with 4.3" capacitive screen with multitouch support, 1Ghz Qualcomm Snapdragon CPU and 448mb of RAM is coming to T-Mobile USA in Q1 2010. It's gonna be upgradable to WinMo 7 which comes out in April 2010 and it's gonna wipe the floor with your iPhone 3GS in every hardware aspect, so if you guys don't want to code for Android - at least please make sure PPC version is WinMo 7 compatible.
*You'll never get a second chance to make a good first impression

*War doesn't determine who is right, but who is left...

*There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't
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Re: Virtual Pool Mobile for Android smartphones

Postby nanot » Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:46 am

opengl ES 2.0 support for android within the new NDK is out now. so you dont have to deal with the java virtual machine
i would be glad to play vpm on my htc desire soon.
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Re: Virtual Pool Mobile for Android smartphones

Postby Apollon » Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:32 pm

nanot wrote:opengl ES 2.0 support for android within the new NDK is out now. so you dont have to deal with the java virtual machine
i would be glad to play vpm on my htc desire soon.


@vpeer
In light of this new information and the fact that Android is the fastest growing mobile OS in the world $10 bucks says VP version for Android will generate more revenue than your beloved iphone. So how about it?
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Re: Virtual Pool Mobile for Android smartphones

Postby Albinario » Sat Aug 14, 2010 12:06 pm

why didnt I read this before I got Android!
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Re: Virtual Pool Mobile for Android smartphones

Postby Apollon » Sat Aug 14, 2010 1:59 pm

Albinario wrote:why didnt I read this before I got Android!

because you got good instincts and they told you not to, so you won't get disappointed?
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Re: Virtual Pool Mobile for Android smartphones

Postby Bagpuss » Sun Aug 15, 2010 5:13 am

Don't panic. Android is kicking Apple ass in 2010 and the trend will continue, so Celeris would be foolish to ignore Android on that basis as it'll have a large market share.
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Re: Virtual Pool Mobile for Android smartphones

Postby vpeer » Fri Oct 15, 2010 12:08 am

Android is in the works right now.
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Re: Virtual Pool Mobile for Android smartphones

Postby Bagpuss » Sat Oct 16, 2010 12:52 pm

Am I being optimistic in hoping for a Bada version too? Allegedly, it's quite straight-forward to port apps to Bada, it being based on C++ and all.

VP Mobile would look gorgeous on my Samsung Wave's Super AMOLED screen and the hardware will make it run like a dream...

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Re: Virtual Pool Mobile for Android smartphones

Postby vpeer » Sat Oct 16, 2010 12:59 pm

Bagpuss wrote:Am I being optimistic in hoping for a Bada version too? Allegedly, it's quite straight-forward to port apps to Bada, it being based on C++ and all.

Yeah, way too optimistic. Cost of porting is not cheap and every platform is looked at as far as ROI. Until Bada sells significant units, nothing will happen.
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Re: Virtual Pool Mobile for Android smartphones

Postby Bagpuss » Sun Oct 17, 2010 12:33 pm

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Re: Virtual Pool Mobile for Android smartphones

Postby vpeer » Sun Oct 17, 2010 1:54 pm

Yeah, that is not much, Android is selling 250K a day.
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Re: Virtual Pool Mobile for Android smartphones

Postby Bagpuss » Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:14 pm

Point taken but I still think you'd cover development costs easily, especially given that the core code routines won't change much. And I'm sure the Dell X51v wasn't selling at 250,000 units a day when you ported VP3 Mobile to it.

Probably unintentional but I read your replies to my question and they come across as slightly arrogant and complacent (such is the inelegance of email). I guess the difference is that you're no longer scraping around for sales now that the iPhone/Android markets are so lucrative. Some companies pursue the smaller markets to ensure their product is exposed to as many consumers as possible as, even when people change platforms, they'll be loyal to products they trust. The Android port has only happened now that the market share is too big to resist. That reactive approach is understandable but hardly ambitious.

VP3 fans have remained remarkably loyal during the barren decade since its launch, so your seemingly dismissive attitude is disappointing. Oh well. Virtual Pool should be an iconic, genre-leading franchise given its peerless position a decade ago but this has been eroded badly for whatever reason and it's a shame. I liken it to Meatloaf who relies on the very old and tired Bat Out Of Hell for paying the bills and is therefore trudging around in the musical backwaters. He never built on original success and has paid the price, ultimately - but probably makes a comfortable living and can always fall back on a re-hash to keep the wolves from the door...

I concede that you are evidently a small company with limited resources, but I think just going for the easy money and taking zero risks is a tad short-sighted. Here's hoping things change when VP4 development is over and resources are freed. But, sadly, I suspect not.

I think I need beer. And cake.

I'll go and visit the new site now...

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Re: Virtual Pool Mobile for Android smartphones

Postby Albinario » Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:32 pm

People, stop asking for stuff until after vp4 comes out. Sidetracks mean delays. Android launch is ok to work on though, since i have that.
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Re: Virtual Pool Mobile for Android smartphones

Postby mulleady » Sat Jan 01, 2011 8:58 pm

Can I take it that VPM is in development for Android? It would be glorious on the HTC Desire HD!

I respect your decision for the iPhone market up to now and have a 3GS running your game. I've been a fan since the XDA days. I cannot believe you don't rank higher on iPhone gaming to be honest.

I look forward to an Android version and would buy it again without hesitation :-)
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