Where's my backstroke?

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sharkey9
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Where's my backstroke?

Post by sharkey9 » Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:13 am

Morning.

VP4 comes with a very limited backstroke which feels very unnatural. Makes it unnecessarily hard to give the right pace, just feels uncomfortable.
Could you give us the old VP1/2/3 unlimited backstroke again please?

Also deflection seems way too much. Maybe I'll get used to it but it feels kind of like hitting a ping-pong ball rather than a cueball.

Regards
Mat

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zwylle
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Re: Where's my backstroke?

Post by zwylle » Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:29 am

Have you installed the patch?
If not, it should fix your backstroke issue.
Hit Check for Update in Main Menu.

Not sure what you mean when you say deflection.

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sharkey9
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Re: Where's my backstroke?

Post by sharkey9 » Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:32 am

Aah thx!
The patch helped, way better now.

Deflection - you hit the cueball with english and it changes it's path.
Seems a bit too much in this version but maybe it's just me and I only played the tournament table settings yet.

Mat

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zwylle
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Re: Where's my backstroke?

Post by zwylle » Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:55 am

sharkey9 wrote:Aah thx!
The patch helped, way better now.

Deflection - you hit the cueball with english and it changes it's path.
Seems a bit too much in this version but maybe it's just me and I only played the tournament table settings yet.

Mat
Ah ok, ping pong confused me :-)

There are some low deflection cue shafts to choose from.
In Quick Play mode you can just open your cue case (menu or CTL-O and change the playing cue and shaft.

If you are a long time VPer the new default for appying english, pivot, may take a bit to get used to.
You can try other english effects to see if theres anything you like better in Settings -> Camera -> English Effect.

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sharkey9
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Re: Where's my backstroke?

Post by sharkey9 » Tue Aug 21, 2012 5:33 am

Yeah I tried pivot but immediately set it back to none. Pivot is kind of an aid and feels unreal.
I'll try some cues, thx for input!

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deraltefritz
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Re: Where's my backstroke?

Post by deraltefritz » Fri Sep 07, 2012 3:54 am

Hi there,

in the current stroke implementation, when moving the mouse behind the backstroke limit, its position is not updated internally in VP4. But when moving the mouse forwards again, mouse tracking is started immediately. This results in striking the cueball at an earlier position on the mouse pad than where the mouse originally started (and of course you'll hit the cueball in the middle of the acceleration stage and not at the end where you would want to hit it).

Since the update, for slow to medium strokes, I never reach the backstroke limit. Consequently, striking the cueball at those paces works without a problem.

However, for faster shots, it becomes very difficult with the "arm stroke" technique.
If you don't know what that technique is, it's something Patrick proposed (maybe 7?) years ago. Instead of moving the mouse with your wrist, you move your entire arm backwards and forwards. That means that a much longer path on the mouse pad is traversed, and I find that it's a lot easier to control the speed that way (and more like moving a cue). It feels a bit strange at the beginning, but it's worth a try (I played with wrist-stroke for years before switching).

Anyway, for these fast shots, it's very difficult to get enough mouse speed when accelerating the stroke from the backstroke limit position. The only way (at least with my mouse settings) seems to be to strike pretty immediately at the desired (high) speed, but the loss in precision is quite severe as it is impossible to accelerate smoothly into the shot. (The same applies for break-shots in 9ball, even with '.' acceleration).

Now here comes my suggestion:
I do NOT demand the backstroke limit to be even further away from the cue.
I AGREE that it looks a bit ridiculous in VP3 (more like speer-throwing, as zwylle hinted).
But I do SUGGEST to keep track of the mouse position AFTER the backstroke limit has been reached. When moving further than the backstroke limit, the cue will simply rest at that limit, while the mouse can still be moved further away. When moving the mouse forwards, the cue should only start moving forward when the backstroke limit has been passed again.
That way one could move the mouse back as much as one desires (but the cue will visually stop at the limit), and still hit the cueball at the position where the mouse started the backstroke.




How about that?

Thanks,
Fritz

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zwylle
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Re: Where's my backstroke?

Post by zwylle » Fri Sep 07, 2012 6:50 am

deraltefritz wrote:But I do SUGGEST to keep track of the mouse position AFTER the backstroke limit has been reached. When moving further than the backstroke limit, the cue will simply rest at that limit, while the mouse can still be moved further away. When moving the mouse forwards, the cue should only start moving forward when the backstroke limit has been passed again.
That way one could move the mouse back as much as one desires (but the cue will visually stop at the limit), and still hit the cueball at the position where the mouse started the backstroke.
I like that idea, but I don't know if it's technically doable.
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Re: Where's my backstroke?

Post by vpeer » Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:19 am

Mouse handler has been completely re-written so things are a lot different now with more options.

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deraltefritz
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Re: Where's my backstroke?

Post by deraltefritz » Fri Sep 07, 2012 3:19 pm

vpeer wrote:Mouse handler has been completely re-written so things are a lot different now with more options.
Does this mean you're thinking about adding this as a features, or are you just bragging about your coding skills*? :-"

* which I'm sure are top notch, producing games like this :-)

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sharkey9
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Re: Where's my backstroke?

Post by sharkey9 » Sat Sep 08, 2012 12:51 am

Yeah more backstroke please.
Still feels like playing in a too small room hitting the walls with the butt.
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Re: Where's my backstroke?

Post by vpeer » Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:00 am

What I'm saying is you may not need any more backstroke with the new mouse handlers

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