Why is everybody always playing 9ball?

[BlackJagged]

I understand why the very best pool players prefer 9ball: it cuts it all short. Your goal is break and then run the game and then run the next game. Cool...but how many of us are playing in that league? Sure not me and sure not 95 percent of all the guys who are playing 9ball. For very most guys 9ball is hoping your opponent misses on the 8-ball. So why is everybody playing this game all the time? Every other game has a smaller luck-factor for average players, every other game is more likely to let the better player win. Every other game demands more concentration and skill to win for the average player. Well, I guess I just answered my question myself. Sorry, silly question.

Or: could it be that everybody is always playing 9ball because everybody is always playing 9ball? Just going on and on?

[AlinVille]

This has to be one of the best posts ever, because what you said can also apply in real life play. And since not many people here care about the game of pool, you won't find a single thread that discusses pool; maybe except this one. I can't speak for the 95% of the guys you mentioned, so I'll just have my say as a regular 9ball player irl and vp3.

I think 9ball is the perfect game for advanced players, as it's definitely the most challenging pool game out there. For starters, it requires a lot more skill in controlling the cueball than any other game, so understanding the balls' physics is essential here. It's certainly the best chance for "the average player" to learn those physics and later on apply them in other games. So one explanation why everyone plays 9ball is (or better still, should be) simply because it offers an easier chance for faster improvement by continually using your knowledge on physics. And as you said, games don't last too long, so all that learning process turns out to be pretty fun and not very time consuming.

Also, from all pool games, 9ball is the one that demands the most consistent play, because you can't afford to make any mistakes here. Not once. In other games, let's say 8ball, after a lame positional shot you usually still have a decent chance to recover. 9ball won't allow it, and that's just a reason why it clearly dominates when it comes to serious competitive play. Is that a new explanation why everyone plays 9ball? Guess not. But it should be, at least to the ones interested in real life play.

A more likely explanation though is that you don't need to be extremely intelligent to play this game. Unlike 8ball and similar games, you're not forced to think about strategies in order to design the run-outs here, it's a fast game, no shot selection. You just need to connect a series of three ball runs. Look at the 1 in terms of the 3 to determine the best position for the 2 and continue to think about the rack in this way until it's over. Consider the 4 when shooting the 2, the 5 from the 3, and so on until you're shooting the 7 and the last three balls. So if you can do a perfect three ball run-out then you can extend that to running countless racks as long as your break allows you to. But you can't afford to miss one single positional shot, that's the real challenge. And that's why it should be played. Anyone can just be a ball maker (watch vp3 snooker, rolling paradise).

I'd like to think most people play 9ball here because of the first two reasons, but I know most do just because they see it as that simple game where you can experience fast frames and some easy wins even by getting lucky at times (like you said, "For very most guys 9ball is hoping your opponent misses on the 8-ball"). So it doesn't matter that luck means absolutely nothing and that in the long run the same guys will still be winning every single time, it's all fun. And I guess that's a fine attitude, as long as it's been the only way we got more players it seems.

That way you don't even need to care about the game of pool, I'm sure some never touched a real table, although vp3 is supposed to be a pool SIM and people should play the game as they do in real, not promote something they know nothing about. Most just play a video game; see how many frags they get. Couldn't run a ball irl. And the best argument for that is vp3 snooker. Some guys claim it's superior to 9ball because it requires more skill to play it. The thing is they're absolutely right. Just that they're confusing vp3 snooker with real snooker. I'd choose the last one over 9ball anytime, but never here. Vp3 is just a pool sim (not a snooker sim), that's why the snooker in it is so awfully easy, it uses the same pool engine on a bigger table, which effectively nullifies the importance of good positional play and that throws vp3 snooker on a different planet than real snooker. It's so unrealistic that it gets hilarious to watch in parallel with a real game of snooker. So I can't see how someone non-ignorant can disagree unless they simply don't understand physics or they know nothing about snooker, never played it irl. I've had this discussion a lot of times, it's always the same, "mini games" vs "the real table" (lol). Try playing position for once? And yes, you do need to compare it to real life play, that's the definition of a simulation, the guy who made the game is a real pool player. Celeris: "So realistic that we guarantee it will improve your real pool game". Well, try playing real snooker the way it can be played in vp3, potting everything from everywhere everytime, might not look so superior here after that experience. On the other hand, vp3 pool games are as close as they get to real life play, that makes 9ball a sim worth playing; that was my point. Is that another explanation why most people here play 9ball? Again, guess not. Just some quick frags, aim and shoot; maybe just shoot. Pool knowledge? Things always stay the same.

[Albinario]

Nice post, Alinville.

I'd just like to say that snooker can be played realistically too - it's up to the player. But of course, in competitive play, you will do the safe long rolls over the tough positional shots any time. But in single player or practice mode - or if you dont care about winning - snooker can be played realistically in vp3.

[AlinVille]

Well I have been playing vp3 for about 3 years now and I have yet to see a century break in "snooker" that could be done irl. Of course it CAN be played realistically here if you try, but why do that, why choose the hardest shots possible when many other unrealistic easy options are available? Not wise. No one does it. It makes no sense, you would just be at a clear disadvantage over the whole competition; this is why most good potters with nothing but a great slow-rolling ability (just one definition of bad players) will always have the edge in vp3 snooker. I guess some players know it but it's not something you can change, we simply need a whole new game engine for snooker. In this easy form it does not demand good positional play at all, and unfortunately that's what real snooker is all about, sometimes a lot more complex, even landing on the optimal angle everytime; no such thing here. Sure I'm not saying you should stop playing the game because of that, it's still a decent video game, of course it can still be very fun, I just happen to care more about the realistic aspect since I do play irl.

[Albinario]

I understand your point, and I agree as well. But positional play is still a valuable asset in vp3 snooker. Take 2 players who pot equally good, but have different positional skills. The better positional player will always win in the long run.

As for 9-ball, I think people play it cause it's fast and anyone can win a rack in a challenge room.

[AlinVille]

Same old same old. You're right but that's not a good example at all, it's pure logic. It can't be too valuable if the only way to benefit from it is when two guys pot equally good. Positional play should make a huge difference between players, as it does irl, and as it does in 9ball; but in vp3 snooker it's just a bonus element, like extra-time to separate two equally bad rollers. The fact is the best potter will always beat the best positional player in that video game, and this is possible because they're two different concepts here. Instead they should go together like they do irl, where you just can't pot good consistently unless you play for optimal position; it's not like in vp3 snooker where you can pretty much pot anything from anywhere on the table to win, you know that. Position should have a much bigger role; that's why 9ball is the toughest game here, not many mistakes allowed, makes it challenging just like irl. After all why do they call vp3 a sim? To simulate real life play, right? Unfortunately it just doesn't happen with snooker... I love the game itself irl, I like it more than 9ball, just not here.

[Albinario]

You are right, but you underestimate the value of position in snooker a bit too much.

Take a virtual player with potting skills and positional skills like o'sullivan IRL, and put him against the best snooker player in vp3. I think the virtual o'sullivan would beat the best virtual players around, even if his long potting abilities won't come close to that of the vp3 player's.

edit: alin you changed the topic of this topic - you should have started a new thread with your snooker bs you fool

[AlinVille]

You are right, but you underestimate the value of position in snooker

I'm pretty sure I don't underestimate it since every 70+ break here is achieved with unrealistic, bad positioning. Just how many times have you seen this scenario? You're on a break and at one point you mess up the positioning for the black, leaving the cueball frozen to the top rail. It's an unpottable black irl, and a risky one even here, so what do you do? A real life player has no second thoughts and tries a safe play using one of the three baulk colors, because it's the best option; he has no easy escape from this. Instead, in vp3 you pot one of them, maybe even the blue, which should be fairly easy, and continue your so called break. Oh right... in vp3 snooker there's no such thing as safety play. Now you may even achieve a century and impress the ones who never touched a real table, vwp nb. This is just an example, and it was the easiest one to remember because I was once asked to record with Fraps a high break in this year's Virtual Snooker WC, but I stopped the recording when I've seen this exact shot. The guy continued his break and it turned out to be a century actually. All fake, no pool knowledge there, nothing worth recording then; just a series of shots made easy because of the low importance of positional play in the so called snooker simulation. Celeris: "Virtual Pool - so realistic that we guarantee it will improve your real pool game". The guy who made that century I was talking about, better go try that shot IRL for a whole year, and I guarantee you'll miss every single time, let alone centuries. I like that Celeris logo though, it doesn't say "it will improve your real snooker game". It's tough for a pool sim to improve one's real snooker game, a snooker sim could.

Take a virtual player with potting skills and positional skills like o'sullivan IRL, and put him against the best snooker player in vp3. I think the virtual o'sullivan would beat the best virtual players around, even if his long potting abilities won't come close to that of the vp3 player's.

That's irrelevant. Will you ever see someone in vp3 shoot like o'Sullivan? No. By that I don't mean his high level of play, hardly missing and such, just the way he plays; and the way every professional snooker player out there does. The shot selection first of all, the positioning, the importance of landing on the optimal angles, rails, the whole tactical play etc., even the break. Actually, just how often do you see someone in vp3 intentionally break like the real players do, with the cueball returning between the blue and the pink? Let me guess, never. Why's that? Because they lose that way. Because the other player would get such an easy red to pot after the break, then such an easy chance to make his fake century, it's hilarious.

In fact, you cannot play like o'Sullivan in vp3 not because you're crap, which sometimes is questionable, but because the bad snooker engine does not allow you to. Sure it's hypothetically possible, but it's extremely difficult to play that game here like a real pro would; vp3 is a competition after all, no one will go for the hardest shots possible (the ones you must execute irl, because they're the only option) when lots of easy shots are available. It's all different, starting with the unrealistic shot selection which pretty much changes everything and ending with the lack of safety play since almost any ball is pottable. So that example is just fantasy, there can be no virtual o'Sullivan here, people will never try to play like him because the game forces you not to. Of course in theory he would beat the best vp3 snooker player like you said, the man achieved a 147 break when he was 15, while most vp3 players here don't even know that snooker tables should have no spots (diamonds).

edit: alin you changed the topic of this topic - you should have started a new thread with your snooker bs you fool

I didn't change the topic, you were the one who wrote some sort of comment about snooker in your first reply; you actually made 3 posts about it. In my initial reply I just made a comparison between 9ball and snooker trying to answer some of BlackJagged's questions. Just to make something clear there... this is not a "let's make vp3 snooker look bad" thread, I've just pointed out the worst parts of it which could be fixed in a new release hopefully. Comparing vp3 with any other pool game today, this game probably still provides the best snooker simulation available on the market, even though it's extremely far away from real life snooker, so I guess it is worth playing for gamers not interested in the realistic aspect. But the thing about vp3 snooker is that it should be compared to the real life game, vp3 is a sim, it simulates irl play, I know I would never be playing this if I wasn't playing real pool. Just comparing it with all the lame pc pool games out there would be a waste of time. That's why I kept mentioning aspects in snooker that are essential to real life play but here they don't exist. And that's why 9ball is the better game in vp3, because it simulates reality best - returning back in time to BlackJagged's initial post.

[sharkey9]

Why is everybody always playing 9ball?

It's quick and seems easy, that's why.

And Alin, I must agree with most of what you're saying, but it's not only the snooker shots which are too easy, same goes for pool games too.
It's always your choice if you roll or if you shoot so you can play both games in a realistic way or not.
Oh and btw...Albin and myself do play the "real" snooker break quite often. When it's good it's dead safe, if not, well, you mentioned it before.

VSnooker definately is way easier than the real thing but without proper positional play or proper break building skills you won't be able to shoot constantly high breaks. Yes, you can keep a break running by hitting a long pot but how far will you get when you can't get back into the break because of poor positional play? Not too far I guarantee.

I think the point is the perfect stroke, not the tables or the pockets. Unlike the pool tables, you still have to hit that long-shot-along-the-cushion right to make it go in. As long as you see it, you gonna make it. That's it.

[AlinVille]

It's always your choice if you roll or if you shoot so you can play both games in a realistic way or not.

Of course, I never said you can't; it's your choice. I just said vp3 snooker forces you not to play in a realistic way since you have many other easy options which don't exist irl. So that choice pretty much becomes pointless - the reason why almost no one here even bothers trying to play right; because everyone will choose the easy way if it's available. There should be no such other options; well I wrote about all this earlier.

it's not only the snooker shots which are too easy, same goes for pool games too.

That's true, and the perfect stroke plays a big part in that. Vp3 is easier, we're not exactly expecting it to imitate real life play, can't replace it. But it does a way better job in pool games than it does with snooker. I know I can play 9ball irl pretty much the same way I do in vp3; anyone could. Except some jumps, I don't think there are shots here that can't be reproduced irl. On the other hand I'm positive no one can play snooker irl the same way they do in vp3, that's the problem. Pool here is very close to the real thing, acceptable at least, while snooker's way too different, it's a very tough game irl. Vp3 snooker even lacks some essential parts of the game's official rules. But I didn't mention that before since I think it's less important as long as the one thing that matters most in the game is flawed here: the whole tactical aspect - that's what makes real snooker a great game.


Edit: I'm not sure how many people understand exactly what this topic is all about, I just know the ones that never played snooker on a real table probably won't. One thing I know for sure though, this is a bit more info than BlackJagged requested.

[9balldotcom]

I see the point that Alinvilles making about the quality of Snooker in VP3,but I do hope most agree with what Sharkeys said.

Snooker in vp3 (regardless of the types of shot you choose to play)still needs a level of knowledge that allows each player to make breaks.
The best players in vp3 snooker arent simple slow rollers,they are players who can execute the shot required to keep a break going.....hence them that dont know how to might occasionally get a 30 break...whereas those of us who have a little knowledge on what we are hoping to acheive regulary get 70 80 and 100 breaks......its that simple.

Im all for a total design change in vp3 snooker as ive said in the past.
We need to steal the table design from WC Snooker with the proiper rules that go with it but keep the same game physics for it....then we got a table that is more suited to Snooker.

[polomint77]

Can we have an easy table, just for me,

[AlinVille]

Can we have an easy table, just for me,

Go play marbles.

The best players in vp3 snooker arent simple slow rollers,they are players who can execute the shot required to keep a break going.....

Yes, and usually the shot required to keep a break going here is not the one required on the real table.
Can't make it any simpler than that.

Im all for a total design change in vp3 snooker as ive said in the past. We need to steal the table design from WC Snooker with the proiper rules that go with it but keep the same game physics for it....then we got a table that is more suited to Snooker.

With vp3's manual mouse stroke method, Blade Interactive's WC Snooker would definitely be a much better game than it is.
That's true, combined, the two would probably make a pretty good snooker sim.

[sharkey9]

Yes, and usually the shot required to keep a break going here is not the one required on the real table.

That's simply wrong.
It's not the table that makes the difference between a right or a wrong shot.
No matter if it's VP3 or the real thing, the wrong shots won't bring you anywhere.

And if I have to pot that long blue because I fked up position - I'm gonna pot it. Either on a real table or in VP3, makes no difference.
When you play good snooker, you don't "keep" it going, you build your break. Thus the required shots are identical.

If you bottle it, you need to repair - and that's where VP3 is, without a doubt, easier, but that does not apply to snooker only.

[9balldotcom]

I have to disagree also....are you referring to a slow roll again??
If a stun shots required it gets stunned...if s soft screw shots rerquired its done......if a top and follow throughs required it gets done...if reverse side is needed it gets done??

I dont quite follow where the same shots arent played in vp3 snooker as in the real game...cos theyre the same shots i used when i played snooker on a real table.

If your referring to keeping a break going by playing a baulk colour...instead of a safety like we would do in real snooker,then we do that cos vp3 simply allows us to do so as its far more accurate and true than the real game and we all know that.


But to come back to BJs original post about why most play 9ball on here.

Its a simple case of it being a greater leveller than a lower skilled player trying to challenge a competent snooker player...they will rarely win a frame,wheras the physical difference and the easier potting on a 9ball table make it more benficial for them to play that game.Thewy simply have a better chance especially on regular tourney distances of 5 to 7 racks per match.
There is no other reason.

When I first started playing VP3 i wouldnt go near the snooker till I was comfortable on the 9ball table,then I moved up after a few months of playing,but only to get used to vp3 as opposed to being used to playing v phall previously.
9ball is the game for the masses...it is short and quick and one of the most attacking billiard games you can play.
Snooker for the masses??? yes look at China and the far east,they are crazy for it and treat the players like movie stars.
Snooker is the ultimate game of strategy and encompasses all of the other techniques and skills reuired to play all other billiard games as does REAL BILLIARDS. 100 million chinese cant be wrong.

[AlinVille]

That's simply wrong. It's not the table that makes the difference between a right or a wrong shot.

Of course it's also the table, unless you mean something else by right/wrong. It's right when it's the optimal choice to put yourself in advantage, either by continuing the break or snookering opponent. Take that long blue you mentioned with the cueball frozen on rail, in vp3 it's the right shot potting it because it's easy and you get to stay at the table, IRL it's the wrong shot because 9 out of 10 you'll miss it. The right shot IRL would be the safety play; that's what I meant. How can you say the table makes no difference? Play that blue on Hawg Pen, it's always the right shot there because you can never miss. I think that's a lame comparison but it's probably easier to understand here than comparing vp3 to real life, since not many play too much IRL.

No matter if it's VP3 or the real thing, the wrong shots won't bring you anywhere.

Depends what you mean by that. I always need to compare to real life since it's a sim and that's why I play it. The wrong shots IRL might actually bring you somewhere when done in vp3. Example: it's wrong leaving the cueball frozen to rail IRL because you're most likely to miss the next shot, it's not wrong leaving the cueball frozen to rail in vp3 because it makes almost no difference in the next shot's difficulty, they're all easy; good quote: "As long as you see it, you gonna make it. That's it."

And if I have to pot that long blue because I fked up position - I'm gonna pot it. Either on a real table or in VP3, makes no difference. When you play good snooker, you don't "keep" it going, you build your break. Thus the required shots are identical. If you bottle it, you need to repair - and that's where VP3 is, without a doubt, easier

It does make a difference since it's almost unpottable IRL but in vp3 it's not. Vp3 is not easier only when you bottle it, you also build your break in another way since the difficulty of the shots is different from IRL; you tend to choose the easy shots available in vp3 snooker everytime, which sometimes involve slowrolling without a lot of interest for optimal position because you don't need it. Let's face it, in that long blue situation you would never consider a safety play here, which actually is the best choice IRL. You sometimes have to use different shots from IRL in order to give yourself the edge here, so the right play is not the same. And that's just what I said in my post: "usually the shot required to keep a break going here is not the one required on the real table". Maybe not usually, but it does happens too often, which is not the case in 9ball for example.

I dont quite follow where the same shots arent played in vp3 snooker as in the real game...cos theyre the same shots i used when i played snooker on a real table... I have to disagree also....are you referring to a slow roll again?? If a stun shots required it gets stunned...if s soft screw shots rerquired its done......if a top and follow throughs required it gets done...if reverse side is needed it gets done??

I wasn't comparing shots between themselves (?). I was comparing the pool sim vp3 to IRL, that's what this whole topic is all about. Here's how, linking to your example: there are cases when the reverse shot is the only option IRL in order to get position to continue the break, on the other hand in vp3 you might be able just to slowroll the balls in because potting is way easier so you don't need very good positional skills. Simple as that.

If your referring to keeping a break going by playing a baulk colour...instead of a safety like we would do in real snooker,then we do that cos vp3 simply allows us to do so as its far more accurate and true than the real game and we all know that.

So you basically agreed with what I said then, vp3 snooker simply allows us to play shots you wouldn't IRL. The baulk colors shot was just an example. Now it's easy to imagine what happens by extending all that to let's say a century break, the whole tactical play gets different in vp3, completely wrong shot selection compared to the real game - the reason why I called high breaks here fake before.

Snooker is the ultimate game of strategy and encompasses all of the other techniques and skills reuired to play all other billiard games as does REAL BILLIARDS. 100 million chinese cant be wrong.

Yes, I have always said real snooker requires a lot more skill to play than all other billiard games, just that it's not the case in vp3 since the game is a lot easier here; pool games like 9ball only happen to simulate reality better. 100 million chinese are not wrong, they just watch real snooker and understand the game, they're not playing vp3 I'm sure. I get the feeling I keep repeating things probably because most don't play real pool too much, since they always seem to confuse vp3 with reality. Maybe I'm not good at explaining things (?). Everyone can judge for themselves just by watching a snooker game in parallel (vp3/IRL) and if you understand physics you will get the exact same impression that I've tried to illustrate in all these posts. And if you still won't, I am really looking forward to reading some good arguments.

[sharkey9]

It's right when it's the optimal choice to put yourself in advantage, either by continuing the break or snookering opponent. Take that long blue you mentioned with the cueball frozen on rail, in vp3 it's the right shot potting it because it's easy and you get to stay at the table, IRL it's the wrong shot because 9 out of 10 you'll miss it.

Yes I mean optimal choice when I said right shot.

Taking your example with the white frozen at rail, you ALREADY fked up position. That's what I meant where repairing is easier. If you took the right shot before, you weren't stuck at the cushion. Same with VP3 and IRL. But I don't build my break that way! Unless I floss up...

And once again you're overrating 9ball because, using your words, you are also not forced to play right in VP3 9ball. I don't need to put the cueball exactly into a position 30cm away from the next ball (well at least as long as you're not Nuno), doesn't matter if the cueballs at a rail or not. All I need is seeing it and some angle. "Right" in VP3, still "wrong" IRL.
Thus, no difference between VPool and VSnooker.
But wait, I don't even need an angle because the pool tables allow me to "make" my angle - much much more than IRL. Even LESS at the Loch regarding middle pockets!

You know what Alin? I always was kind of defending Pool vs. Snooker with all the Brits in here underrating 9Ball so much and now I'm finding myself in a situation defending VSnooker vs. VPool.
I think both are great games and VP3 does simulate all of them in a pretty great manner. As close as it gets, definately with some quirks but still great.

I feel you're a player who loves his game which is 9Ball and you immediately felt "home" at the VP3 9Ball table.
If you were a dedicated Snooker player you'd feel the same at the Loch like some other bangers.

Maybe we can get some kind of arrangement:

- VP3 allows you to play successfully wrong but it doesn't force you to.

Hows that?

[AlinVille]

Taking your example with the white frozen at rail, you ALREADY fked up position. That's what I meant where repairing is easier. If you took the right shot before, you weren't stuck at the cushion. Same with VP3 and IRL. But I don't build my break that way! Unless I floss up...

Maybe you try not to build your breaks that way but I know how most people here do, cueball frozen on rail is not considered a floss up in vp3 I'm pretty sure, you'll actually impress some guys making centuries that way. So it's not really the same as irl, where safety play should be at least considered at that point. And I'm pretty sure you slowroll around aswell at times because the game allows you to, you can't tell me you play snooker in vp3 just like you do irl, the shot selection first of all; that would be very tough, therefore pointless.

And once again you're overrating 9ball because, using your words, you are also not forced to play right in VP3 9ball. I don't need to put the cueball exactly into a position 30cm away from the next ball (well at least as long as you're not Nuno), doesn't matter if the cueballs at a rail or not. All I need is seeing it and some angle. "Right" in VP3, still "wrong" IRL. Thus, no difference between VPool and VSnooker.

But irl I know I can pot that in 9ball even if I didn't play for optimal position, which is not really the case in snooker. It's not about me anyway, but when you watch a pro play 9ball irl you'll notice the runout is designed pretty much the same way as in vp3, in snooker the difference gets huge especially on a high break. I'm not overrating 9ball, all I said is that it simulates reality better than snooker does, and since that's the only thing I care about here I think it's the better game in vp3. But in real life play I find snooker superior in every way.

I feel you're a player who loves his game which is 9Ball and you immediately felt "home" at the VP3 9Ball table.
If you were a dedicated Snooker player you'd feel the same at the Loch like some other bangers.

Well I play pretty much irl, and that's exactly the reason why I stay away from snooker in vp3. There's a difference, most here aren't dedicated snooker players, they're dedicated vp3 snooker players, so it's hard to know how a real table should feel like.

Maybe we can get some kind of arrangement:- VP3 allows you to play successfully wrong but it doesn't force you to.

That is correct. But I think you also understood what I meant, I just took it a step further; by allowing you to play some unrealistic easy shots, everyone will tend to go for them, that's why it I said it forces you. You will never choose the hard way unless you really want to play like you would irl, which most times here is not the case; you can't blame anyone though because in vp3 it's possible unfortunately. I'd just like snooker to be a better sim, a bit tougher in the first place; and the perfect stroke as you said plays a big role in that, but not as big in pool. You don't really need the best stroke in pool games irl, some pro players have an awful stroke yet they play good consistently, but as you probably know, snooker does require a pretty one. It's a must, and can take quite a while to train.

[Albinario]

Ok so we all agree on this:

Long shots are a whole lot easier in Vp Snooker than in real snooker.

Alin thinks:

The long shots in snooker alter how the game is played to such a big degree that, to real life players, it is not worth playing because it is too far from the real thing.

V-Snooker fanboys think:

Vp3 snooker is still the closest you get to real snooker online, and it's fun and you still need positional skills to make high breaks.

It IS obvious that snooker is played a lot differently in vp3 than in real. Choices are made while building a break that would not have been made in real play. Players don't only use long rolls to "repair" as Sharkey put it, but they play position to get on these long shots because they are easy enough. They're incorporated into the break building rather than being a last resort when having messed up position.

It is also obvious that potting is not the be all end all of vp3 snooker - if that were the case then any ghostballer could beat all.

So I respect alin's opinion of not playing snooker cause he wants an accurate simulation, and I also understand the people who do play it because it is still a good simulation and good fun!

[9balldotcom]

I agree with Albi on what his commensts say.
Alinville wants vp3 to be a TRUER representation of snooker than it currently is and it wont be so as long as the table is the same and the physics remain the same...it would need a whole change not just a patch.

9ball however in vp3 is still alot easier than IRL and players play shots that arent played on a real table....simply as vp4 allows it and the margin of error is thus that potting a ball is easier.

So I dont think that the similarities are as far apart as you may think.>

[vpeer]

I guess I'll throw my 2 cents in for what it is worth.

9-ball and Snooker are both great games. As with any billiard game cue ball movement is really the key to being a good player. VP tends to make that even more so because pocketing balls tends to be easier for most people versus real life.

The game that requires not only the best cue ball movement but also the most knowledge is One Pocket. It is the most difficult game to play, both in real life and in VP.

I think the main reason people online are not playing more is that most of you have probably not played it in real life. A lot of you are in the UK One Pocket is pretty much unknown there.

I can sum it up in one sentence:
Playing other pool games (including snooker) is like playing checkers, One Pocket is playing chess.


Here are some places with information you may find of interest:

http://onepocket.org - good site some instructional information

Winning One Pocket - best pool book I ever read. Out of print now, I have a copy probably worth at least $500. If you can get ahold of this read it.

Videos from Accustats:
Efren vs Joyner Derby City 2007
http://www.accu-stats.com/Qstore/Qstore ... 1173039691
Efren vs Matlock, Evren vs Deuul
http://www.accu-stats.com/Qstore/Qstore ... 1117688754

There are more. It is worth watching Efren, he is the best pool player, IMHO to ever live.

[mal_clarke]

Having played and beaten a top ranked British 9-Ball player, and practised with a World Champion, I feel that the simple answer to the question is that we play this game as a simulation of the real thing, and the 9-Ball sim is VERY close to the real thing. Hence my love of it, because I love the real thing. When the top pros (and I know this to be true) says it is a great game then it really is.

It's just a shame more people don't get into the tournaments rather than the same faces because with the game as good as it is, there are a lot of possibilities.

[AlinVille]

Perfectly said. Good argument, the easiest way to explain to people who maybe don't play real pool a lot.


As for tournaments I just think we need a new game, this is 8 years old; not a lot of players around nowadays, most probably find it boring and repetitive after such a long time.

[AlinVille]

I have been playing vp3 for about 3 years now and I have yet to see a century break in "snooker" that could be done irl.

Well here's my attempt I guess: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zu_0aPCQpjY&fmt=6

[TheLuckyCue]

There are more. It is worth watching Efren, he is the best pool player, IMHO to ever live.

Mine too vpeer!