Why is everybody always playing 9ball?

[Fluke[FIN]]

My opinion about this vp3-snooker vs. real snooker -thing:

Long pots are easier in vp3, true. Its because of the players "perfect stroke technique" in vp3; when you press "s" and move the mouse, the movement of cue is perfectly straight.

If I had the same kind of perfectly straight cue-action in my real snooker play, I definitely would go for potting the blue from its spot even if cueball is in the side of top-cushion.

But exactly the same goes also for all vp3-games; If you got cueball on the top cushion (well, not ON THE TOP OF IT lol, ya know what I mean :D ), and object ball on the other end of the table, you can pot it in, no matter is the game snooker or pool.

I posted a comment to vp3gold -suggestions thread a few weeks ago, related to the "vp3:s perfectly straight cue action". If there would be some kind of horisontal sensitivity in the striking-action too, I guess nobody would try to pot the blue from its spot and cueball attached to the top rail. (in VP3 when you press "s" the game regonices ONLY the vertical movement of the mouse. If there would be also a horisontal regonication, it would be a lot more closer to the real thing). So players should also focus to their cue-action technique; The straighter you are able to move the mouse, the straighter your strike is in the game.

[sharkey9]

Yes you're perfectly right Fluke but there is no solution to this.
IF Celeris would implement X-Axis movement detection, players would simply use some kind of guidings for mouse movement stabilization.
Or maybe one mouse with detached X-Axis sensors for shooting and another mouse for everything else.
Sort of inconvenient I must admit.

[Albinario]

Yes, people would cheat it easily. Only option I think would be to add a randomly imperfect stroke for all shots, and increase the imperfection close to rails. Nap effect could also help against long slow rolls on the snooker table.

[9balldotcom]

While they are at it they can limit angling the cue to 25 degrees in snooker when a numpty is near a rail and playing a stupid slo rool shot that way as well.

Making stupid high angle attempts to shoot a ball in vp3 snooker is a cop out shot and i hate it.(you all know I do)

[AlinVille]

But exactly the same goes also for all vp3-games; If you got cueball on the top cushion (well, not ON THE TOP OF IT lol, ya know what I mean :D ), and object ball on the other end of the table, you can pot it in, no matter is the game snooker or pool.

True but I know I can pot that blue on a pool table irl, yet on a snooker table even professional players won't try it. So no, concerning realism not all vp3-games are the same; I wrote before, not going to repeat stuff. But a good post overall.

IF Celeris would implement X-Axis movement detection, players would simply use some kind of guidings for mouse movement stabilization.

That's right, like I know they do in those online golf games with X-Axis movement, where players just put a cd or something next to the mouse to shoot perfectly straight; funny.

Only option I think would be to add a randomly imperfect stroke for all shots, and increase the imperfection close to rails. Nap effect could also help against long slow rolls on the snooker table.

I like the idea. I think Poolstars has that imperfect stroke thing and it feels pretty good, a bit more realistic, although that game is lame overall. Close to rails shots should definitely be tougher, it would make players to actually learn a thing or two about good positional play. Now they don't really care much if they land close to the rail or not, they know the pot is still easy.

And the nap effect would be a great idea against the funny long slowrolls easily made in snooker here. Balls rarely roll in a dead straight line on a real snooker table because of the cloth's roughness. And the harder you shoot, the less significant the nap effect is; that's why you don't see professional snooker players making lame slowrolls on a possible long shot after the break, they know it's a lot tougher to pot that way. Yet this is done everytime in vp3 snooker and it changes the whole aspect of good tactical play, which barely exists here unlike irl. So again, concerning realism vp3-games are not all the same, 9ball is much more realistic for instance. Anyway here's a good article for this topic, since not everyone knows about the nap effect:

"Snooker and billiards tables have a cloth covering the playing surface, which has a nap, a slightly raised surface, which has a direction; it is smoother or 'with the grain' going from the baulk end (the D end) to the black spot end or 'against the grain' the other way round. This is why when caring for the table, you must always brush from the D to the black spot, to keep the integrity of the nap. The nap effect will come into operation only when the balls are running slowly, but it is very important because if you are forced to play a slow shot it could easily be influenced by the nap. But where it is the cue ball that has the distance to travel, the nap can affect it so much that it drifts away from the intended contact point on the object ball.

Note this is not the case with American pool, where high quality pool cloth is usually made of a nap less weave such as worsted wool, which gives a much faster roll to the balls. The faster or slower a cloth is, affects the amounts of swerve and deflection of the balls. Snooker table cloth traditionally has always had a directional nap, upon which the balls behave differently when rolling against the direction of the nap. Pool tables do not usually have a nap, in most cases they have 'speedball cloth' with no nap, thus no deviation of the balls."

[sharkey9]

Nap effect could also help against long slow rolls on the snooker table.

NAP NAP FTW !
Great idea.

...; that's why you don't see professional snooker players making lame slowrolls on a possible long shot after the break, they know it's a lot tougher to pot that way. Yet this is done everytime in vp3 snooker...

Well I saw it more than once. It's harder but not because of the nap. The nap has no impact shooting from baulk to black.

[AlinVille]

Well I saw it more than once. It's harder but not because of the nap. The nap has no impact shooting from baulk to black.

Yeah more than once but rarely I'm sure, only in that case when you can't leave something clear for the opponent if you miss; because chances are that you do miss by choosing to play like that. And professional snooker players know it.

And about the nap, that's so wrong. It does have an important impact when shooting from baulk to black too, just not as powerful as the other way around. This is what tends to happen when a ball rolls with minimal pace along the nap (shooting from baulk to black) http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/6629/alongnaphr2.jpg and this is what happens when you shoot with minimal pace against the nap http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/8160 ... napcx0.jpg (without sidespin because that changes things). But it is indeed more pronounced when shooting against the nap, and the most common example is a ball played very slowly towards the middle pocket from the area between the pink and black spots, when you'd need to aim a bit more to the far jaw of the pocket or even slightly beyond in order to pot it irl (only if you're shooting with minimal pace). Anyway, slowrolling long shots is a definite no on the real table, yet a definite yes on the vp3 snooker table, and that's bad. But introducing the nap effect in a next Virtual Pool game (?) could only help against that, so I also think it's a great idea.

[Fluke[FIN]]

Hello,


NAP-effect would be nice to have in next gen vp3.

Some other things which makes snooker & pool easier compared to the real thing:

Aiming view:

1. Many players are using a view which is pretty much the same as playing real snooker/pool with rest all the time. Seeing the angles from a little more far away is easier. (Well of course it is possible to play with rest all the time on a real table, but who does? In real play playing with rest is a little more difficult than without it. Again, if I had the same kind of perfectly straight cue-action like in vp3, it would be easy in real play) I like to play vp3 with very constant zoom, like my head would be on the top of the cue, not behind. The game looks & feels far more realistic in that way. It might be a little harder that way but its the way I like it.

2. VP3 should not have an option to disable "restrict eyepoint". This is making the shot far to easy & unrealistic especially when the cueball is near the cushion; lots of people are aiming "under the cue" which is in real play "a little" difficult lol:D (I would like to see that, it would look a little funny also) Also in general, people are aiming from lower eyepoint that wouldn't be even possible in real play. (eyes are located ~in the middle of your head, not on your chin)

3. Relating to zoom & shooting when cueball is attached to the cushion: First an example of a regular aiming view: In the real play, lets say cueball is in the middle of table (lots of space around) and when youre going down over the cue for sighting & aiming, the tip of your cue is approximately lest say 25" away from your eyes. (You can see 25" of your cue in front of you when aiming+ depending of your lenght of your arms). But what happens if the cueball is attached to the cushion? You have to put your bridge hand on top of the cushion & really close to the cueball. This is forcing your head(eyes) to be more closer to the cueball -> you can see now only ~15" of your cue in front of you. When seeing a shorter part of your cue lining the shot in front of your eyes, the seeing the line of shot is a little more difficult. In vp3 you are NOT forced to aim with higher zoom in this kind of situtation.

EDIT (ADDED):

4. There is no any blurring effect in vp3 like there is in real play: In vp3 you can see the cueball & the object ball very clearly at the same time in any situation, which is possible in real play ONLY if the cueball is reeeeally close to the object ball. I mean in vp3 you can watch both of those at the same time. In real play you have to flick your eyes from the cueball to the object ball and sidewise, which makes aiming on real play harder.

[sharkey9]

How should the game determine which ball your eyes are focusing at?
Do you want another button to be pressed for switching focus?
Please not.
Youre surely right with your point but I think thats one of the real minor "flaws", if at all.

[Fluke[FIN]]

Hi,

Heh no I dont want any keys whatsoever. Maybe I gave the wrong impression on my earlier post. I know it is impossible to add any kind of blurring effects to vp3, I was just comparing the differences between vp3 and real.

-Fluke

[Hanterp]

Hello folkes, happy to be back after a while. Good to see very interesting discussions like this :)
I think Vsnooker and snooker differ most in the cue-action. In Vsnooker you have a perfectly straight cue-action and in real snooker you sometimes don't.
That is in particular different on a real snooker-cloth where unwanted side has more effect than on a pool-table. Also the nap of the cloth plays an important factor on it.
In real life my highest snooker-break is 68 and in Vsnooker it is 113, enough said :)